JONES, WYATT & ROBERTS
PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL MEMORANDUM
ATTORNEY WORK PRODUCT  ATTORNEY/CLIENT COMMUNICATIONS


TO:		STEPHEN JONES, ROB NIGH, BOB WYATT, AMBER McLAUGHIN

FROM:	ROBERT WARREN

SUBJECT:	SOLDIER OF FORTUNE SEMINAR BY RICK SHERROW

DATE:	OCTOBER 11, 1996


On September 18, 1996, I attended a seminar by Rick Sherrow which was held at the Sands Convention and Exposition Center in Las Vegas, Nevada.
Mr. Sherrow's presentation began with showing slides of the Murrah Building and various other buildings in the immediate area surrounding the bomb site shortly after April 19, 1995. 
Mr. Sherrow initially discussed the size of the crater (his information on the crater did not add to what we already know) and then much of his discussion centered on addressing some of the common rumors.
Mr. Sherrow believes that it is quite possible and in fact probable that a single ammonium nitrate bomb could have done the damage that was done to the Murrah building.   Mr. Sherrow said that by knocking out the front columns of the building, that gravity then took over and the building in effect destroyed itself.  Mr. Sherrow was of the opinion that the remainder of the building was structurally sound and could have been rebuilt.  
Mr. Sherrow showed slides of buildings surrounding the Murrah building which one year after the blasts had still be neither repaired nor destroyed.  Mr. Sherrow observed that if the Murrah Building had to be destroyed to allow people to begin to heal and to clean up the area, why is it that no effort has been made to clean up any other building.  
Mr. Sherrow showed a slide of Andreas Strassmeier standing in front of an American flag (this photo looked very similar to the one we have in our report by Richard Reyna, in fact, I believe its identical).  Sherrow stated that Andreas Strassmeier came to the United States in 1988, being brought over by Kirk Lyons and the C.A.U.S.E. Foundation.  Sherrow stated that Strassmeier had met Kirk Lyons or some other representative of the C.A.U.S.E. Foundation while living in Germany and came to the U.S. as part of a Civil War re-enactment group.  Sherrow stated that Strassmeier slept on Kirk Lyons' couch and became known as Couchmeier because he lived there so long.  Sherrow stated that he felt that Strassmeier, while being a bit radical, was not violent.  Sherrow interviewed Strassmeier for Soldier of Fortune magazine, in south Texas.  Sherrow added that he, himself, had met Tim McVeigh in a gun show in Phoenix.  Sherrow stated that at that show, Tim McVeigh was talking about his plans for constructing some sort of grenade launcher that could shoot down a helicopter.  Sherrow characterized Tim's design as a toy and stated that at he time he felt that Tim should keep his hands in his pockets because he might hurt himself.
Sherrow stated that after Strassmeier had worn out his welcome at the C.A.U.S.E. Foundation, that the C.A.U.S.E. Foundation "put him up" at Elohim City.  Sherrow stated that Elohim City has strong ties with Jim Ellison.  Sherrow stated that immediately after being released from prison that Jim Ellison went to Elohim City and married Robert Millar's daughter.
Sherrow stated that Andreas Strassmeier was made the security chief at Elohim City due to his military experience.  Sherrow stated that while at Elohim City, Strassmeier purchased some land and put a trailer on it and had intended on getting married, but as part of one of the scams that are run by Elohim City, when Strassmeier left Elohim City, they threw all his belongings out onto the street.  When he came back, they told him to get lost.
Sherrow stated that at the time of the bombing, Strassmeier was working at a nearby property putting in a fence.  Sherrow claimed that he can document this information.  Sherrow stated that after meeting with Andreas Strassmeier, he was of the opinion that physically Mr. Strassmeier is not capable of making it in GSG9.  He feels that the rumors of his being in any type of special forces are untrue.  Sherrow added that Elohim City had also at one time been the home of Richard Wayne Snell.  
Sherrow stated that during the Freeman standoff, Dennis Mahon called the media and told them to come over to his house.  Mahon allowed the media to film him as he was loading his weapons into his trunk and Mahon told the media that he was going up to Montana.  After Mahon left his driveway, he drove three blocks, parked his car, waited for the media to leave and then returned home.  
Mr. Sherrow addressed Ted Gunderson, former Los Angeles FBI Agent, and his theories.  Mr. Sherrow seemed to be of the opinion that Mr. Gunderson's theories were nothing short of crazy, and when pressed for information about Mr. Gunderson's background, Mr. Sherrow stated that his background is very interesting.  He tried not to answer directly, but said that if one was to check the court records and newspaper articles from about one year after Gunderson's retirement from the FBI, one would find numerous articles about a possible protection racket in the Los Angeles area.
Mr. Sherrow stated that one of the problems we have today is that people are willing to believe almost any kind of conspiracy theory, however, he feels that there are reasons for these beliefs.  He stated that people no longer trust our government.  He said that if five years ago he said that "an FBI agent is going to take his sniper's rifle and shoot a hole through a mother, blow her brains out while she was holding a baby, or if I had said that if the BATF and the FBI are going to get a bunch of military tanks and run holes through a church and its going to burn up and 80 people are going to burn to death," that no one would have believed him.  He said as a result of these occurrences, people are getting more and more suspicious and are more apt to believes stories about terrible deeds by the government.  Mr. Sherrow stated that recently Ted Gunderson was soliciting money so that he could run for the Democratic presidential nomination (he insinuated that Gunderson was only interested in the money solicitation, not the election) and Gunderson also claimed that a Soviet made missile was responsible for the downing of TWA Flight 800.
Mr. Sherrow then addressed Ben Partin's theories.  Ben Partin believes that there were bombs planted inside the Murrah Building on the support columns.  Sherrow stated that Mr. Partin's resume and his facts and figures that he uses to support his theories look very impressive, however, Mr. Sherrow says that he takes exception to Mr. Partin's figures.  Sherrow feels that Ben Partin underestimates what blast pressure will do.  Sherrow is of the opinion that contrary to Ben Partin's theory that it would 370 pounds of pressure to knock down one of the concrete columns, that in reality, only 30 pounds would be enough pressure to knock down the columns.  Sherrow stated that 8 pounds of over pressure would knock a box car off its rails.  Sherrow stated that Partin also does not take into account the two phases of an explosion.  He believes that whenever a device explodes, it pushes the air out of the immediate area which creates a vacuum and the air rushes back in again.  Sherrow states that sometimes the air rushing back in can cause almost as much damage as the explosion itself.
Sherrow addressed the various reports about the seismographic information.  Sherrow stated that based on his interviews with Mr. Holtzer and at the University of Oklahoma, he believes that the bottom line with regard to the seismic reports is that it is possible for a single explosion to create multiple disturbances on a seismograph, however, the people who read it cannot conclusively state what caused the multiple readings when the Murrah Building was bombed.
Sherrow stated that in 1976, he participated in Project Distro (sp?) where 630 tons of ANFO was exploded and seismic recordings were made.  Sherrow stated that he suggested to the seismologists that they attempt to obtain this data for comparison purposes.
Sherrow continued by addressing other rumors such as the reported TOW missile and the stinger missile.  He stated that the TOW-guided missile was a dummy which had been located in the Marine Corp recruiting office.  He believes that the stinger missile was also a dummy and was used for sting operations by the BATF.  Sherrow addressed Charles Keys' belief that there was a large quantity of explosives inside the Murrah Building being stored by the BATF or some other agency.  Sherrow believes that this is incorrect, however, he said that there were stun grenades in the BATF office.  Mr. Sherrow stated that past experience with explosives in buildings would probably have affected the federal agencies enough to keep them from storing explosives in such a populated area.  He stated that several years ago a large amount of Soviet ordinance washed up on a Florida beach.  The materials were subsequently taken to the Hoover Building in Washington, D.C.  There was a fire in the Hoover Building and the explosives started blowing up, with rockets going off and blowing holes in walls.  The explosives caused substantial damage in the Hoover building, however, it was reported in the newsprint as a small closet fire.  Sherrow stated that the real cause of the fire was mishandling of chemicals which when combined started a fire.  He stated that he knew this because he was part of the BATF unit that investigated the fire.  Sherrow said that the FBI tried to blame the lab clerk for the fire stating that he had left a soldering iron on a lab bench. 
Mr. Sherrow does believe that the government had prior knowledge about the bombing in Oklahoma City.  He believes that the government did not set up or plan the bombing, however, that some law enforcement agencies did view it -- that they had the bombers under surveillance.  He believes that both the FBI and the BATF were conducting surveillance of the Murrah Building before the bombing.  He stated that the bomb squad, the fire department and Tinker Air Force Base had been on alert one week before the bombing.  Mr. Sherrow interviewed workers at Trigen--the steam generating plant in Oklahoma City and learned that on the 16th of April at 11 p.m., there was a steam explosion or blow out at the plant.  The police showed up immediately and asked if the plant had been taken over by terrorists.  
Reportedly, the BATF and the Oklahoma City Bomb Squad was observed in the area immediately surrounding the Murrah Building at 6:00 a.m. on the 19th of April, 1995.  Furthermore, he reported that the HUD office had received a bomb threat two days before the bombing.  Sherrow stated that the FBI determined that the Ryder truck had been rented from Eldon Elliott's too quickly, and that Ford Motor Company does not put a VIN number on the rear axle of those trucks and neither does Ryder.  He stated that Eldon Elliott's is still under surveillance and no one is allowed onto the property unless they have business there. 
Mr. Sherrow reiterated the Mike Moroz story.  Mr. Sherrow stated that shortly after the explosion in the "brick yard" (presumably Brick Town) a license plate was found on the street under a truck by a woman and she called the FBI.  According to Sherrow, the FBI sounded very excited on the phone when talking to her and then did nothing to further investigate.  Four days later the FBI called her back and told her not to worry about the plate, that "It's nothing."  The FBI told her that the license plate had been stolen two weeks before in Arkansas.  Mr. Sherrow did not say where the plate is presently or what its number is.
Sherrow stated that the FBI search on Nichols' farm was based on lies and that the fuel meter was broken (he appears to be confusing the two Nichols' residences).  He stated that evidence has come out that telephone taps were placed on the Nichols' farm one week before the bombing.  (During the question and answer period at the end of his discussion, Mr. Sherrow stated that his evidence with regard to the Nichols phone tap comes from defense requests for such information.)
Mr. Sherrow stated that some people may question whether the BATF would be willing to let a sting operation goes as far as allowing a bomber to drive a truck in front of the Murrah Building.  He stated that he knew personally of one particular incident where the BATF allowed an abortion clinic bomber to drive from Kentucky to Pensacola, Florida with a load of improvised explosives before arresting him.  He stated that the BATF followed him to Florida and arrested him when he was putting his explosive mixture into a pipe.  He stated that on another occasion, he knew that the BATF in a sting operation had planned on buying 200 lbs of explosives and decided to make the buy in a crowded parking lot instead of out in the desert.
Sherrow stated that shortly after the bombing, and while Michael Fortier was under surveillance, he went to speak with Fortier.  He said that at that time, Fortier was white as a sheet and shaking -- he was terrified.  Sherrow stated that he believes that the FBI coached Lori Fortier into saying that Tim McVeigh arranged the soup cans in the kitchen.
Sherrow believes that a bomb of the size that destroyed the Murrah Building would have required no fewer than four people to construct it.
Sherrow stated that S.A.C. Marx(sp?) from Dallas said the BATF in Oklahoma City had an undercover operation going on the night before the explosion, and many were sleeping in that morning and that's why many of the BATF members were not at the office at the time of the blast.  Sherrow questioned what their undercover operation involved and wondered if the Murrah Building was the subject of their surveillance.
In conclusion, Mr. Sherrow spoke for about 2 hours on the Oklahoma City bombing but did not seem to shine any light on some of our unanswered questions.  I did feel that his assessment of Ted Gunderson and Ben Partin may be helpful to us in case we plan on calling either of these individuals as witnesses during trial.  From Mr. Sherrow's statements, I was given the impression that we would likely be embarrassed if we were to call Mr. Gunderson and that Ben Partin's theories may not hold water either.  The discussion about the license plate from Arkansas was very interesting and we may want to inquire about that.  Mr. Sherrow would not say whether he believed that Tim McVeigh was involved, only that it was possible.
Unfortunately, although I attended a seminar, I arrived and departed too early to see the actual Soldier of Fortune convention.  The seminar I attended was in effect, a pre-convention seminar.  The real convention did not start until September 21, 1996.
RW:sh
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